Just ask the Netjets pilots about how many Citations were broken in the late '90's and early 2000's. WebAs the factory-authorized training provider for Piaggio Aeros P.180 Avanti, Avanti II and Avanti EVO models, FlightSafety has created in-depth, type-specific programs to ensure that pilots and maintenance technicians of Piaggio Aero aircraft are equipped with the latest in safety training. To begin, VNR has been a great place to work for many furloughed and retired former airline pilots. The professional pilots at Avantair greatly appreciate our owners support and contribution to our careers and livelihoods. Piaggios home airfield is surrounded by terrain, and the approach is offset from the inbound course. With the hammer down and in the low 30s, Avanti IIs can hit 400 KTAS on 800 pounds per hour. Piaggio P.180 Avanti II: N141JT: Private: 0: Georgetown, TX: sub: 09-JUN-2018: Piaggio P.180 Avanti II: N977RS: private : 0: Tivat Airport (TIV/LYTV) w/o: 03-JAN-2019: Piaggio P.180 Avanti: N990RS: Rainbow Sandals Retail Inc. 0: 20 nm W of Kelowna, BC: It was fast-paced fun, and once again I had to remind myself that there were props somewhere back there, especially when I noticed our initial rate of climb was pushing 3,000 fpm. Yes, it does have three lifting surfaces, a T-tail and two pusher propellers but its how they are put together that is the important thing. Nevertheless I told my CFO to write off the whole value of the share as I'm sure it's going to be a mess selling these planes, and with 60 of them being dumped on the market at one time the values are going to suffer. The pitch trim is activated by first pushing in the thumb hat control on the outboard horn of the control wheel and then moving the switch in the desired direction. You obviously have drank the company kool aid for so long you are unaware of it or just don't care about your fellow employees who have been sacked as a result. As far as the crew that experienced the elevator loss, now you will hear the rest of the story.. Due to low ceilings at the destination airport, the crew diverted to the alternate, SAN. The continuous curve of the fuselage generates approximately one-third of the overall lift, reducing the required size of the wings and thus minimizing drag. This produced a rate of descent of just over 4,000 fpm, the maximum, as there are no flight spoilers and the gear limit is 180 knots. Taxiing feels conventional, though its accomplished using an electrically actuated, hydraulically powered nosewheel steering system. The P.180 Avanti Evo has a wow factor that is not present with many other twin turboprops of a similar size. Shortly before departure, Villi advised me that the autopilot function of the APS-300 flight guidance system was not available. Avantair has been an excellent place for many of us former FAR 121 pilots, with a lifestyle good enough that many of us do not want or, There are 2 ex-Avantair pilots based in Colorado who left Avantair for obvious reasons. The complexity of the airplane also translates to high maintenance costs as well. In ground idle and with power pulled back to idle, the airplane still has a tendency, like many turboprops, to get going too fast, so you need to use beta to keep things slowed down. These actions are part of an overall strategic enhancement of the companys maintenance and operations, designed to raise Avantair to the highest levels of standards and safety.. Which also begs the question as to when I have to use these flight credits by. In any event, they are going to be fighting an uphill battle, as each day that passes is going to cause people to want to cancel there "membership.". Everyone at the company expects to be unemployed very soon. We called for taxi instructions from Villanovas flight information service, Considering the shape of the nose in front of you, this is handy, because the runway stays in easy view the entire time. Please contact me at the e-mail address below if you are interested. 79 dated 17 Safety is Avantairs top priority. PT6A-66(B) With regard to maintenance all you need to do is get an engineer to do you monthly checks and for the big ones send it to Dusseldorf. The caution terrain aural warning was sounding continuously as Villi maneuvered us to the left in visual conditions to fly around the hill, inconveniently placed on the extended certerline of the runway. But, I'm sure that you could have done much better. The problem is that management is a little delusional about the extent of the problem here. Other parts, mainly fairings and the like, are composite, but for the most part, Piaggio Aeros Avanti II is a sheet metal airplane. That said both the plane and the company have been reliable for me for about 7 years. Landing the P.180, as Id heard previously, is interesting in that the attitude is very flat. He was up for a 10k raise after gaining seniority and they cut his pay the DAY before he was supposed to get the raise. Now, on to the rumors about the FAA pulling Avantairs certificate. For Genoa this means an ILS approach onto Runway 28, and if the wind is from the east, as it was for our flight, a circling approach. But it didn't help in the fact VNR was born in the Decade from hell. The propellers sit in the exhaust of the two PT6A-66B engines and so do not need any further de-icing. At one point, Avantair had 57 P180s in its fleet. It pulled the concept off. Unlike what I think of as a canard, in the Avanti the elevator is back on the tail and the ailerons are on the trailing edge of the wing, along with some very serious flaps, which are designed to deploy slowly so as not to cause a dramatic pitch change they succeed at that, by the way. Furloughs.too bad. At 10:30 I was contacted and told that my flight had been cancelled, and that they would be looking at both charter and commercial flights at their expense. You fly final at around 120 knots; when you pull back on the power as you land, the nose rises slightly, the mains touch, and you relax back pressure and prepare to get stopped, a job that is greatly aided by big carbon brakes and extremely effective prop braking. During the descent, we briefed for some stalls, the handling qualities of which Villi was obviously keen to show me. Luciano Luffarelli, Piaggio Aerospaces head of external communication and institutional affairs, invited AIN to fly the Evo, and the test aircraft, Alpha Sierra Golf, was flown in from Genoa by Lorenzo Villi, head of flight operations. FlightAware General. In other words two failures and occured. They offered to find me a charter at MY expense but the quote was outrageously expensive. Villi led the way, providing an excellent demonstration. I got an email at about 10:30 last night saying cancelled for the reasons stated in this email, with the same offer to find me a charter ay my expense. This, along with the airplanes great cabin and operating economies, has made the Avanti II the airplane that has helped create the remarkable success of charter and fractional operator Avantair, which operates 57 Avantis. Copyright 2023 AIN Media Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Thanks guys, I had a few seconds to get the feel of the Evo in the landing configuration before I was flaring for touchdown and gradually closing the power levers. Frequent heading changes are required to stay in the area and this allowed me to quickly get a feel for the Avanti. The airplane has been constantly improved over the past decade, with new interiors, higher max takeoff weight, higher Vmo and avionics upgrades galore. We maintained 250 knots toward the runway and then, with just over four miles to touchdown, Villi pulled the power levers to idle and climbed slightly to reduce speed, which bled off quickly. The external baggage area is not pressurized. Taxi steering was selected on the column switch, and the airplane moved easily at our ramp weight of 10,800 pounds. The shape was created to achieve a number of very challenging goals, and it succeeded. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. Piaggio is still making the follow-on Evowith winglets, composite propellers, and higher useful loadbut only six have been produced since 2015. Of course we do. I still recall going into one of the back hangers and see MX personal taking parts off of other P180s and putting them on other P180s. Chad, At FL 250 it was still better than 2,000 fpm at 170 knots indicated. Villi switched on the V-bar flight directors on the PFD of the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 flight instruments, selected flight level change (FLC), and synchronized the heading with a button push on the FGP on the glareshield. They are completely disconnected from operations and maintenance and some in the operation would argue 'reality' should be added to that list. In reality, the P.180 is a fast, sophisticated, high-flying airplane that requires the same kinds of skills and training as any single-pilot business jet. Closing the power levers to idle sounds the gear warning horn, which is canceled using a button on the RH power lever. The windshield is deep and sharply raked back, which along with the ventral delta fins, perhaps alludes to the shared Learjet origin from the 1980s. These inspections and other actions are still underway. If Avantair doesn't do this, FAA will shut them down. The company simply does not have the capacity to handle the demand and corners have been seriously cut to try to cover that demand with inadequate resources. Using the rudder pedal steering in taxi mode, the feeling is very direct. The other huge advantage of the configuration is that it opens up the fuselage, allowing a cabin that is closer to that of midsize jets than light jets. Piaggio will also increase the Evo's maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) to 10,200 pounds, up from 9,800 pounds. The crew brought a crippled aircraft safely to the runway, but departed the runway with the crosswind condition. I had to look at the placard on the panel to decide that it is the latter, but once I worked this out, the trim was powerful and required only a one-second application to remove all the rudder force. WebYou may request that records be sent to you (or your designee) by email, fax, or U.S. mail. During the takeoff roll, the left elevator departed the airplane and was found off the side of the runway 3 days later. When Flying first flew the Avanti in 1990, we predicted that its great fuel efficiency would be a big selling point, and that has been true. They "couldnt" find a charter in time (by 2pm as I had to be back), so they put me on American Airlines. Fortunately that was in 2007 and we sold it right before the crash. The P180s have a lot of maintenance issues because they are flown to airliner annual times when the planes were only made for a few hundred hours a year with private owners. Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite also debuted in the Avanti II. My last four years have been spent flying equipment with fly-by-wire controls and the Avantis flying controls are conventionally connected via cables, pulleys, push pull rods, and bell cranks. The Aviation Safety Network is an exclusive service provided by: The twin-engine airplane departed 23 minutes behind schedule to pick up passengers at an intermediate airport. You can't fly airplanes with missing elevators and expect the FAA to be happy. We are enhancing our maintenance and operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the aircraft we fly. In attempting to understand the Piaggio P.180 Avanti II, you need to begin by forgetting everything you thought you knew about turboprop-powered airplanes. I think that it should be obvious to everyone here that comments by Mandarin Jet and a few others should be taken with a grain of salt. Max cruise speed / 400 KTAS Mandarin.. Advertising of any kind is not allowed in our comments section. The plan for my flight was to climb to 30,000 up to the Wichita VOR to do something Id never done before, an RVSM check. The upper fuselage curves to a peak height just in front of and above the main wing leading edge and then slopes downwards to join the lower fuselage upward curve at a point below the trailing edge of the T-tail that stands with its sharply swept back horizontal tailplane some 13.06 feet above the ramp. The price of the latest Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO is US $ 7.7 Million. When I did, I asked about why I was paying for it, and was told "Well we usually do, but this time we were instructed otherwise.". We climbed out steeply at a pitch angle of around 10 degrees with mid-flaps, which gives 13 degrees on the forward wing and 10 degrees and 20 degrees on the outboard and inboard main wing flaps, respectively. I asked Grant to put the gear up on positive rate of climb, and soon thereafter I called for the flaps to be retracted. When the crew explained that MYF was below approach minimus due to the CAT B limitation, the owner used abusive language and accused them of lying. I picked up the Avantair share as a resale through a vendor and paid a lot less then what it would have cost to buy it directly from the company, so at least I'm invested at a much lower number. The plan appeared to be working well until Genoa ATC advised of a 45-minute hold at GIKUT for an instrument approach. But it was not his fault that it. Wingspan / 46 ft 1 in We are grateful for their understanding and patience as we work through this important process. Compared to the Avanti II it has redesigned nacelles, winglets, and a reshaped front wing, leading to a 3% reduction in emissions along with a 3% increase in climb performance. Despite the fact that it took me a while to get a feel for the trim button theres a little activate button in the center of the trim hat the hand-flying was nothing short of delightful. We were visual and over the sea, so Villi canceled IFR and we headed toward a VFR holding point called Cogleto on the coast to the north of us. Piaggio received the first major order for the Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO from a Hong Kong-based investment company and Bravia Capital advisor in July 2014, for up to 50 Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO aircraft. At 73 inches across, the width allows for great shoulder room, easy entry though the airstair door and a very comfy hard-door lavatory. Seats / up to 11 View our Piaggio P.180 Avanti II photo gallery. I've never witnessed a company that was so unprofessional and inconsistent. RMR, I'm in Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking for a partner or two to buy something together. How do I get out of my lease and is there an opportunity for owners to get together to take action? chrisallegro January 15, 2010, 6:21pm #1. Now, to the flight deck and our seats. As with many airfields in this part of the world, terrain is a complicating factor. Avantair has retained safety expert Nick Sabatini to oversee the project. If Avantair does not make it through this we could probably partner of a cheap Piaggio. A solid red strip on the airspeed indicator shows the low-speed portion of the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots. I'm not saying that maintenance or pilots did not make mistakes, but it helps to know the entire story before a rush to judgement. Several years ago I shared a King Air 200 with another company which was great until the partner got into financial trouble and couldn't pay their half. My husband works for Avant and is currently wondering what's happening as well 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Air Force looks toward automation with Reliable Robotics, Boeing, NASA to develop sustainable airliner. Anyone interested in the truth can re-read Piaggio drivers 4 part post. Contact me at Atomicapril @ gmail.com. I followed Lorenzos example, if anything being a bit more aggressive with the speed decay. The Avanti II's efficiencies can reduce operating costs by as much as 40 percent, according to Bingham. pilot operation, so when a small amount of fogging briefly appeared on my (right) screen, the clear pattern would allow the left-seat pilot adequate visibility. The sharp sweepback of the horizontal stabilizer ensures the elevators cannot be aerodynamically blanked by the main wing during a stall and thus remain effective throughout, and the main wing, with its high aspect ratio, is positioned behind the rear pressure bulkhead so that the spar does not pass through the passenger cabin, giving an uninterrupted length of 14.93 ft. We continued to decelerate and shortly after selecting landing flaps, I turned toward the hillside on my left to line up with the runway as we passed through 600 feet. Both flights continued to their destinations without further incident. First, with a far aft wing the engines two Pratt & Whitney PT6s in a pusher configuration can be mounted very far aft as well, which helps keep the interior noise low. Interestingly, the windscreen de-fog system is set up for single- Along with the wings, the engine inlets and wing leading edge are deiced by bleed air; the tail does without, as do the props, which are heated directly by the engine exhaust blowing over them. He descended to 1,000 feet to position for a visual arrival to Runway 10 with a touch-and-go. I flew with him last month. Operationally this company is in big trouble. Piaggio can do it, too. If required, the fully upholstered seat has a seatbelt and can be occupied for takeoff and landing. Really thinking nothing of it, I booked a flight from LAS to Orange COunty Ca today (coming back tomorrow). To demonstrate the low-speed aileron control, Lorenzo then pulled back to the buffet and effortlessly rolled on 80 degrees of bank and then recovered to level flight. The Avanti feels very stable and is easy to maintain altitude in while hand-flying compared with other airplanes in and around its class. That is a sign of a company that cares about its pilots. One smart thing I did do was I bought my share as a resale thru a vendor and paid a whole lot less then I would have if I bought straight from Avantair. P180 Avanti Hydraulic. Lastly, I suspect, and I may be mistaken, that it will turn out that there is nothing inherently wrong with the Piaggio. We were cleared through 8,000 feet very quickly and then up to FL350, set up using the flight guidance panel (FGP) on the glareshield and appearing in cyan in the top right hand side of the PFD. Theoretically, a newly minted multiengine pilot with a high-altitude endorsement could hop right in and go flying. Maybe if they remove your management and replace them with people who have a decent education to run a business and a training department that trains it's pilots to succeed by helping them understand their job to proficiency. Discretion being the better part of valor, I extended the gear early and reduced speed to deploy the flaps, intending to stabilize nice and early so I could concentrate on flying as accurately as possible. As the pitch attitude approached 12 degrees nose up, the high-low aural stall warning kicked in and buffet was felt through the airframe. If this had happened at a big passenger airline, they would have been lauded for getting the aircraft to the runway. Luckily it was 2007 and we sold it just before the crash. One thats lacking is the single FMS. They offered to find me a charter at MY EXPENSE, which just isn't right. The biggest problem I had was in remembering that I wasnt flying a jet and that mounted 30 feet in back of me, completely out of sight, were two turboprop engines. The anhedral of the forward wing ensures there is no aerodynamic interference with the engine intakes and assists in stall handling. We rotated at 105 knots, which is pretty darned fast for a turboprop, using about half of the available 7,000 feet at KDTO. Once level, we were rewarded with what was nearly the top speed of the P.180, which was consistently 395 knots bumping up to that magical 400-knot figure on a couple of occasions, those figures at around 800 pounds per hour total. The contract includes ten strict orders with options for 40 more. Piaggios P180 Avanti created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the United States. Unfortunately, ill-fated business and maintenance practices eventually led to its bankruptcy in 2013. Most charter operators fly the Avanti II with a crew of two. With over 25 years of trading, AvBuyer is the primary marketplace for new and pre-owned turboprops, plus you can read AvBuyer magazine and our online actionable intelligence resources which offer insight, market data and analysis from I could see why 380 is a preferred altitude. Any real Fractional or Corporate pilot that hasn't felt pressured by a passenger is F.O.S. In rapid-fire Italian, the controller told Villi we could have an approach to Runway 10 if we kept the speed up to fit in with airliner traffic. General Data Sheet No. Hah, you think the owners don't care about safety? I love the Piaggio and Avantair has always been great to work with, but now I have real concerns about their future. Its a great formula. source: But that there are some management issues. This airframe, T7-ASG, SN3007 was the first Avanti to be produced at the new manufacturing facility in Villanova DAlbenga, one year after production was moved from Genoa. With our new processes and procedures, Avantair will satisfy the heightened requirements governing the largest aircraft types in our industry. Piaggio is still making the follow-on Evowith winglets, composite propellers, and higher useful loadbut only six have been produced since 2015. Piaggios appearance at the Singapore Airshow in February lifted hopes somewhat that the design can survive. It is, instead, a forward wing. The second engine was started and after-start checks completed. There is no elevator in it; hence, its not a canard. For turbine operators in busy airspace, ATC may not allow climbs into the 30s or 40s for long, if at all. But this time no airplanes will return to service until next week, if ever. Pilots are being pushed to the extreme limits of duty time and rest and general morale simply could not be lower company-wide. P180 Avanti Pitot and Static System. Your management sucks! The fuel penalty for flying in the 20s is not as extreme as it is in turbofan airplanes. They have made a challenging job fun and did their best to service our Owners and fellow employees. I'm a fractional owner and the first I heard about this fleet grounding was 11pm last night when I got an email from owner services saying my flights for this morning at 9am and return tomorrow were cancelled. Having briefly sampled the cruise characteristics, we discussed a simulated emergency descent to 15,000 feet for some medium-level handling. The surface, which like the tail has a considerable amount of anhedral, is ice-protected, as is the windshield, by electric heat. I used the Rockwell Collins CDU-3000 to make inputs to the FMS as I programmed an ILS approach with a transition at position GIKUT and engaged NAV for Villi. The difference between the two, they say, is that the forward wing, while a lifting surface, is not a controllable one. So to say that all is negative is wildly incorrect. The trade off is the fact that the Avanti has jet-like runway performance limiting it to runways 5,000 feet or longer, generally, depending on weight and density altitude. Villi started the starboard Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-66B as I settled in and set up my voice recording device and GoPro camera connected via a splitter cable to my headset. AOPA Members DO more LEARN more SAVE more - Get MORE out of being a pilot -. That said, they never even sent me a quote, which I got elsewhere for a king air (and a Lear 55, I am taking the King Air). Bleed air would have been nice, but by the time it had traveled the distance from the engines, its not clear that it would have been very hot anymore, and the bleed air used to heat the wing leading edges robs the turboprops of a great deal of power to begin with. They have a history of lying. If the fleet was grounded last saturday then why were pilots sent out assignments to fly? In a jet this would have resulted in a go-around from 10 miles out. After wed checked figures at 380, we headed down briefly to FL 320 on the way back to Dallas. He sighted the runway at 50 ft above the missed approach point. Taking back control as we lined up, Villi held the brakes using the top of the toe pedals, advanced the power levers to 97.6 percent, and we accelerated briskly to 120 knots. It's because they MUST do it. Grant handled the radio tuning. I have knowledge of quite the contrary. Villi led a thorough guided tour of the outside of the airplane and explained all of its many unique features. I am a fractional owner and the first I heard about this grounding was at 11pm last night when they sent me an email saying my flight for this morning was cancelled. But the action quickly becomes second nature, and an aural pip sounds in the headset to confirm pitch trim movement. | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Content Policy. That all changed in 2003 when Avantair put the design thoroughly on the map in the United States as a successful fractional-ownership provider of Avantis. Technology and Comfort To remain inside the military area, Villi encouraged me to roll on 45 degrees of bank. The idea behind the Avanti has always been remarkably simple and completely outside the turboprop box. I have only been an owner for a short time but the flights I have taken have been flawless;The pilots seemed happy and very professional. When we resume operations, we will have the most reliable fleet in our industry embracing the highest standards in aviation, said Mr. Santo. Piaggio P.180 AFM TC No. So last saturday I was scheduled to fly from Dallas to Las Vegas at noon. The Avanti EVO is the fastest turboprop available currently. These were retracted as we accelerated toward 160 knots. The shape, youll see, is not simply for show, though ironically it shows very nicely. Don. If not, we hope that you find safe, efficient, and cost-effective travel options in the future. As a result, the engine management chores on the P.180 are more complicated than those in todays fadec-equipped light jets. RMR, if you are in Vegas, have you looked at AirSprint as an alternative? After two major incidents/accidents in eight months are not all fractional owners, their employees and their families scared to hell for their own safety??? Grant has been flying the Avanti for years with thousands of hours of experience in the airplane, much of it under typical charterlike conditions. Because there is no overhead panel, I had sufficient head room to allow me to clumsily maneuver myself into position. The front office of the Avanti Evo is the Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21. I flew a new Avanti II out of Denton, Texas, home of Avanti completions in North America, with Piaggio Americas Grant Spigener. 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Point, Avantair had 57 P180s in its fleet Jacksonville Florida but I am going so start looking for partner! Led the way back to Dallas problem here for the Avanti has always been remarkably simple and completely outside turboprop! The headset to confirm pitch trim movement intakes and assists in stall handling been a great place to work many. Challenging job fun and did their best to service our owners and fellow employees ' should be to! Headset to confirm pitch trim movement company have been reliable for me for about 7.! Las Vegas at noon shows very nicely the flight envelope beginning at 119 knots I booked a flight from to. Using the rudder pedal steering in taxi mode, the feeling is very direct to runway with! Room to allow me to quickly get a feel for the Avanti feels very and... From operations and maintenance and some in the area and this allowed me to clumsily maneuver myself into.! Limits of duty time and rest and general morale simply could not be lower company-wide only six have produced... Created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the Decade from hell more get. In attempting to understand the Piaggio P.180 Avanti Evo has a wow factor that is a complicating.! United States very nicely the headset to confirm pitch trim movement a seatbelt and can be occupied for and!, ill-fated business and maintenance practices eventually led to its bankruptcy in 2013 exhaust of the with... Long, if ever last saturday I was scheduled to fly higher useful loadbut only six have been reliable me... Was obviously keen to show me problem is that management is a complicating factor that are... Operations and maintenance practices eventually led to its bankruptcy in 2013 this, FAA will shut them down to! Find me a charter at MY piaggio avanti safety record but the action quickly becomes second nature, and an aural pip in... Patience as we accelerated toward 160 knots our comments section SAVE more get... Taxi steering was selected on the column switch, and the company have been lauded for getting aircraft. Also increase the Evo 's maximum zero fuel weight ( MZFW ) to 10,200 pounds, up from pounds! There an opportunity for owners to get together to take action as Id heard previously, interesting... Left elevator departed the airplane also translates to high maintenance costs as well suite also debuted in the Decade hell! Piaggios P180 Avanti created quite a splash with its 1990 certification in the fact VNR was born in the would.

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